When they arrived, Yung-chia did not prostrate to the Sixth Patriarch as ritual demanded. Rather, he circled Hui-neng three times holding his scepter in one hand and a vase in the other. Hui-neng said, "A monk should display a solemn appearance. Where do you come from, and why are you so arrogant?"

Yung-chia replied, "It is most important to resolve the problem of birth and death, because death will come soon. I have no time to worry about manners. My only concern is to be free from birth and death."

Hui-neng countered, "Why don't you try to experience no birth and no death? Then you will understand that there is no such thing as soon or late."

Yung-chia answered, "If one knows the principle of the Dharma body, and knows that the Dharma body has no birth or death, then one understands that there is no such thing as soon or late."

Hui-neng said, "That, indeed, is right."

The assembly was amazed by this dialogue, and even more amazed at what followed. Yung-chia prostrated to Hui-neng, and said, "It is time that I leave."

Hui-neng asked, "Isn't it too soon to be leaving?"

"Since originally there is no such thing as movement, " Yung-chia answered, "there is no point in saying that there is soon or not soon."

"Then who is it who knows that there is no motion?" Hui-neng asked.

Yung-chia said, "It is you who makes the distinction."

Hui-neng praised him: "You really do understand the meaning of no birth."