Deer Park

Empty mountain, no man is seen . . .
Only heard are echoes of men's talk.
Reflected light enters the deep wood
And shines again on blue-green moss.


By the end of the poem any human presence is gone. All that remains is light. Would Shih-fu comment on this poem?

SHIH-FU:

It is poetry, so you can interpret it any way you want to. For example, many Ch'an masters recognize everything as being perfect or the highest. If you interpret this poem from that vantage point, you can say that it describes a Ch'an state. But even if it does so, it is not a high level of Ch'an. It speaks of empty mountains in the sense that there are no people. Then it mentions the sound of human voices. Finally it leads to light shining on moss. My question is, who is seeing all of this? There is still an observer. As long as a self remains it cannot be a high level of Ch'an.

STUDENT: