As to unifying mind with nature, there is a point in one's meditation when body, mind and environment become undifferentiated. There is no internal or external, no differentiation between previous thought and subsequent thought. It is possible for art and poetry to convey this feeling, and it is also possible for an artist and poet to experience this without practicing, but it is extremely difficult.

STUDENT:

Buddha-nature is everywhere and everything. Can artists, by way of their intense involvement with their art, attain certain levels of Ch'an without even knowing about Buddhism?

SHIH-FU:

It is possible for an artist to attain a state that may be called an artist's enlightenment, a kind of unified mind, where the artist merges with the art, but the experience is still grounded in existence, not emptiness. Of course we can consider an artist's enlightenment a shallow level of Ch'an attainment, but it is not the same as seeing one's self-nature.

STUDENT:

Is it possible to somehow experience Ch'an without having had any exposure to Buddhism?

SHIH-FU:

It would be most difficult to have such an experience, because the person wouldn't know about the idea of emptiness.

STUDENT:

What about the third Bodhisattva Vow which says there are limitless approaches to Dharma? You once said anything, even intellectualism, can be a path to enlightenment if you have no vexations or obstructions in your mind.

SHIH-FU: